Ethan Evans on Making Another VP Realize Their Mistake Without Saying It: Influence Without Insulting

Watch the original interview: YouTube

In this short conversation, Yuzheng Sun (Staff Data Scientist at Statsig, previously at Meta, Amazon and Tencent) interviews Ethan Evans, a retired Amazon vice president, on what makes a good manager, what is expected of directors, and how to change the mind of a peer without telling them they are wrong. The video comes from the channel Level Up: Make No BS Career Breakthroughs and runs about 11 minutes.

This article is our own summary, with short quotes and timestamps from the video's transcript. Watch the full video above for everything that was said.

The short version

• A good manager is judged by the whole team. Hiring well, developing stars, and not ignoring the bottom half (0:00 to 3:00).
• Directors are judged on money and peers. Can you make the company money, or something that clearly turns into money, and can you work with other strong leaders (3:00 to 6:00).
• People get more polite as they rise. Because you will need that vice president next quarter (6:00 to 7:00).
• The Twitch method. One question, "Could I share how I've seen this done elsewhere?", opened the door without raising defenses (7:00 to 9:00).
• Play the long game. Be someone who is clearly trying to help and often says smart things (9:00 to 10:00).

What he said, by topic

What makes a good manager (0:00 to 3:00)

Evans says the team is the engine and that a manager who spends too much time as a hands-on engineer or data scientist is "often neglecting their team." He asks whether managers hire the right people, grow their strongest performers, and work to improve those who aren't the strongest. His example: a leader with a team of about a thousand who loved working with the stars. Evans asked what they were doing for the bottom half, roughly 500 people costing perhaps $200 million a year at a tech company, an asset being ignored. The second element is peer relationships: a manager "becomes a negotiator" over schedules, resources and scope, with clear communication (what is red, what is green) and real influence.

Inventing and changing the game (3:00 to 4:00)

Good leaders are also creative. They may invent technology, a business approach or a new way to organize, "changing the playing field." At director level, it is assumed you can already manage and manage through others.

What directors are judged on (4:00 to 6:00)

He looks for two things. First, impact on the company: are you making money, or doing something that is a clear proxy for money? His proxies are saving cost, inventing new technology or product ideas that turn into revenue, and driving business growth or customer satisfaction. Second, can you hold your own with other strong, opinionated directors while keeping the peace.

Why peers get kinder as they rise (6:00 to 7:00)

At Amazon he watched peers become more polite from senior manager to director to vice president. Senior managers might say "that's a dumb idea, that team sucks." Higher up, he says the beliefs did not necessarily change but the expression did, because "I'm going to need them tomorrow." The skill is leading another director or VP to realize their idea is flawed without ever insulting them.

The Twitch story (7:00 to 9:00)

When Amazon bought Twitch, Evans went to work for the CEO, Emmett Shear, in a role they called "spirit guide": explaining how Amazon worked. He had no authority over anyone. His phrase was "could I share how I've seen this done elsewhere." He avoided saying "Amazon," which would raise their guard. And since "no one except a complete jerk" says no to that question, they had to listen. Then he could share concerns and constraints without making demands.

Why it works (8:00 to 10:00)

The person you want to influence is smart, has succeeded, and wants to be right. If you can give them information without threatening them, their wish to succeed will make them use it if it truly helps. Evans wants two beliefs in their mind: that he is always out for their good, and that he often says smart things. Once that is true, "you've moved them" from an oppositional to a collaborative conversation.

The host's summary (10:00 to 11:00)

Sun sums it up: framing a conflict closes the door on collaboration, you need to accept that you may be wrong, and by respecting the agency of senior leaders and giving useful information over time you earn a seat at the table. Evans replies that this is "very much correct."

What to do with it

1. Ask before you tell. Try "Could I share how I've seen this done elsewhere?" and let the other person say yes.
2. Leave the label out. Don't name your company or your authority if it will raise their guard.
3. Give constraints, not verdicts. Share what worries you and why, and let them reach the conclusion.
4. Invest in trust first. Aim to be known as someone who helps and who often has a good point.
5. Pick your fights. Not every disagreement is worth the relationship you will need next quarter.
6. Look after the whole team. Don't spend all your attention on the stars.

Video details

• Title: The art of making the other VP realize his mistakes without saying so
• Interviewer: Yuzheng Sun, Staff Data Scientist at Statsig
• Interviewee: Ethan Evans, retired Amazon VP
• Published by: Level Up: Make No BS Career Breakthroughs on YouTube, October 30, 2024
• Length: about 11 minutes
• Watch: youtube.com/watch?v=O0-XoEv8jvk
• Note: quotes come from the video's automatic transcript and are lightly cleaned. Check the video for exact wording.

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